Base cleaning

Question
QUESTION: Hi Ron, I have a question regarding cleaning my snowboard base. The natural color of my base is white with some stripes of black. It抯 different than other transparent bases with graphics beneath, I guess because it抯 a sintered base. Last year I didn抰 wax properly and the base got very dirty. I tried using a base cleaner and also a hot scrape. Some of the areas of the white base came out very clean, but I still have certain areas where I cannot get them clean. I was thinking to use sandpaper, maybe 180 or 220 grit and sand the parts using a block to get original color back again. What do you think?

ANSWER: Hi Joe,

The only problem you will face with sanding the base is that it's likely you'll cause low spots, and these can cause erratic handling.

Stone grinding will clean up the base, but only if it is flat to begin with, otherwise you'll just be clean at the high areas, and the recessed areas will still be dirty, or you'll have to lose a lot of base just getting there.

If you've been using wax with graphite in it, you might be holding some of that in the base still. But in my opinion, I would not work too hard to get them clean- they'll get dirty again, and the effort can't be worth the return.

Ron


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Ron,

Thanks for the advice. I just have one extra question regarding my base. I also had 2 deep scratches in it, deep up to the core and metal of the edges. I used to different techniques to fix them till I get to a good workshop on my next trip. I used a p-tex candle on one scratch, and on the other scratch I used a sort of powder that you suggested to me. Its made by Toko. I did this just to see which of them will last longer.

The p-tex candle was a bit messy and needs some practice to get a clean fix without any carbon. While the powder, by melting it with a wax iron for 15-20 sec and letting it to cool down is much easier, cleaner and the material was harder to scrape. The problem is that I read in a forum that some people managed to damage the base when melting the powder with the iron. They said that the base melted too and that the pores sealed, thus ruining the ability of the base to absorb wax. I also read once that this can occur when snowboarding or skiing on new dry bases, or when you don抰 wax for a long period. They said that the base gets damaged and the pores of the base seal themselves.

My question is, is it possible to do such damage to the base when overheating or not waxing for a long period. And if so how can you recognize the damage and fix it. I do understand that if you don抰 wax you can get some extra scratches on the base, but to the point of sealing all the pores I think it抯 a bit difficult. Also regarding the Toko repair powder, if using such heat to melt it would damage the base don抰 you think that the company would know it. I mean Toko isn抰 such a cheap company afterall and I guess they did their research. What do you think?

Best regards

Joe

ANSWER: Hi Joe,

I have not used the Toko repair powder for some time, but I never had a problem with excessive heat. I think I used a hobby iron to lay it in though. I understood from Toko when the powder was first introduced that it had a micro-crystaline structure, designed to mimic sintering so that the area would have some (if limited) wax retention capability. I don't know if this was marketing-hype or not, but that was the story.

For those people who said the pores sealed with the powder, I am not sure what they expected- but they do not know much about the material they are working with.  P-tex candles are simply extruded (melted and formed) PE mixed (I believe) with wax- while most bases are sintered (compressed) HDPE. The wax is to lower the melt temperature, and aid in scraping- but I think this is why Ptex repairs don't last very long. There are no pores in a p-tex repair, nor are there any in a base weld, which is extruded p-tex without the added wax. There is not such animal as a sintered p-tex candle, simply because in the melting process, you changed the sintered portion to liquid- eliminating the pores in the process. Now, if you could find a way to foam the p-tex, you might be onto something...

Co-Polymer repair material, also made for use in an extrusion gun, adds a glue to the weld for better adhesion, but it also will not hold wax. If you are seeking wax retention ability, your only option is a patch, cut and glued into the base. In all cases involving heat, the surrounding areas of sintered base material may melt as well- this is why you drip your p-tex candle onto a metal scraper as you bring it to the ski (or board), to avoid random drips onto the base, keep the flame low, and minimize carbon formation on the candle (in fact, many shops use a torch to light the p-tex to keep carbon from a match off the candle).

No, you don't seal a base by not waxing- the type of damage that occurs is more akin to drying out than expanding and sealing- the base does get damaged- it experiences a form of oxidation, and while we call it burning the base, and friction plays a significant role, it is not really burnt, so much as frayed. UNder a microscope, it would look "hairy".

I don't understand your question about not waxing and sealing the pores- if you don't wax, you will damage the base, but not in the way you describe- it simply wears faster in areas without wax, and is more susceptible to damage from the types of things that would scratch it. Wax lubricates and adds density.

One area I am looking into, FYI, is this: Since base damage rarely occurs on super cold days (theoretically because the base is harder and less prone to penetration by foreign materials like rocks and stumps), does the same increase in density cause wax within the amorphous zones (a more accurate description of the "pores") to express from the base, or does the wax and or base shrink in the cold. I'll pass this onto Chris Taylor and the Swix guys for an answer, and post it if I hear back.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Ron,

Thanks again for the lecture, you did answer my question. You also answered another dilemma I had in mind. That base burn is actually when the base is frayed and has a hairy look under the microscope. Regarding this subject I would like to ask you another question if you don抰 mind.

Swix have a base prep called BP88, and besides being a soft base prep it has a hard additive that when it cools down it pulls the hairs of the base up to be scraped after, or at least that抯 what Swix say.

My question is, you think its all marketing hype or it does work? Also, if it works, does it have a limit to its usage? I mean if the part of the base close to the edge is very frayed, you think this wax will fix the damage, or you need something like a base grind?

Regards

Joe


Answer
Hi Joe,

I asked a friend who waxes for the world cup, and Masters racers about the BP88 and other base prep/ base replenishing products.

His take on this is that replenishment comes by loading the base with graphite loaded soft wax- both are capable of reaching the amorphous zones, while the soft wax may remain maleable, the graphite component may be more stable- in fact replenishing the graphite in a carbon base. The distinction though, is that base burn is not limited to carbon bases, it is just more visible.

BP88 is not supposed to be a graphite replenisher though- just an economical base layer designed for maximum penetration through multiple passes. Swix says you'll eliminate hairs via fibertex (scotchbrite) and a plastic scrpaer.

You can delay the need for a stone grind- although the long term results will be the same- the area near the edge will cup and require flattenting- but with diligent waxing it may be a while before it is necessary. This depends upon your own sensitivity to the boards flatness near the edge- a cupped board tends to get the wubba's (chatter).